If it was up to people making subjective propositions for every wikipedia page, then there would be millions of the same subject; there can't be 6 billion wikipedia pages of the sun, there can't be 6 billion pages wikipedia pages of earth, and of course there can't be 6 billion pages of Mahidevran. Worldandhistory (talk) 18:40, 23 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], --Phso2 (talk) 17:48, 24 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Hi again, sorry I noticed now you added "suggests she was a cariye, thus of non-notable family" I will have to remove it because the source only called her Cariye and did not specifically says that she was of non-notable family. In 2019, mention of the Russian origin of Hurrem Sultan was removed from the visitor panel near her tomb at the Sleymaniye Mosque in Istanbul at the request of the Ukrainian Embassy in Turkey.[48]. Hurrem was allowed to give birth to more than one son which was a stark violation of the old imperial harem principle, "one concubine mother one son," which was designed to prevent both the mother's influence over the sultan and the feuds of the blood brothers for the throne. We cannot overlook them. I began this website in 2013 because I wanted to share these women's amazing stories. Mahidevran Sultan probably had a stillborn child or short-lived daughter somewhere between 1521 and 1524. [22] It was only possible for Hurrem to marry Suleiman after the death of Hafsa Sultan. It seems you consider a Talk page as a comment war section, well it's not. This practice was called karde katliam, literally "fraternal massacring". Where are the administrators of this page anyway? She's a hatun, not a legal wife, still had similar privilege as a haseki, her son didn't become sultan: all the facts point to her not being officially a sultana. 113.203.158.58 (talk) 00:23, 8 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I request a change of title, to revert it back to its original name (which was only "Mahidevran") and maintain its protected status. Interviews are constantly being used in Wikipedia for every notable person, why neglect this one? [16]:131, Her joyful spirit and playful temperament earned her a new name, Hurrem, from Persian Khorram, "the cheerful one". About the recently revived edit war on the Origins of Mahidevran, I would like to clear that I am not a descendant of Mahidevran, I just came across the Genealogy document and thought it was rather convincing one. Prince Idar took this as an opportunity to make a good relationship with their rapidly spending neighboring dynasty, as young Prince Sulieman was only a few year older (if not the same age) than his most beautiful daughter. In rare cases, an autopsy needs to be performed by a pathologist. [42], It is believed that Hurrem was a cunning, manipulative and stony-hearted woman who would execute anyone who stood in her way. Sorry cant find sources now that was about 12 years ago. Again it's just my opinion to me it looks like a fact. She learns about the pregnancy of Nigar Kalfa through Gulsah and she informs Hatice Sultan of his husband's unfaithfulness. This did not, however, prevent Hurrem from wielding powerful political influence. And only after the release of the series Magnificent Century, where she was one of the main characters, various information about this sultana began to appear on the Internet.As Mahidevran's contemporaries wrote, in life she was a black-haired beauty with brown eyes. - Worldandhistory (talk) 18:40, 29 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Wow, it seems you desperately did some personal research, you have all the time in the world don't you? She was the chief consort of Suleiman before the appearance of Hrrem Sultan. Selim II (r. 15661574) likely never held anything against Mahidevran personally. She was his mothers rival, not his. Selim II, as depicted in a m At age 26 Suleiman takes the throne. It is traditionally believed that Hurrem, along with her daughter Mihrimah and her son-in-law Rustem, orchestrated Mustafas execution by turning his father, the Sultan, against him. Selim could have helped Mahidevran out of guilt that he lived and became Sultan while her son did not. "Sultan" had many meanings throughout history and did reflect the status and the way of interacting of the times; if we want to accurately depict history then, at last, she's a "hatun". It was the first complex constructed in Istanbul by Mimar Sinan in his new position as the chief imperial architect. In 1520 after the death of Selim I, Suleiman moved to Istanbul to succeed his father, his court followed him afew weeks later. Above all, her being mother of heir apparent is not a popular culture but a fact. 113.203.156.141 (talk) 23:52, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], First of all, those references you've cited are: 1) popular culture based books 2) recent and based on art and theatrical depictions; as such, these references are unfounded and misinformed when it comes to Ottoman history. WebDeath 3 Feb 1581 (aged 8081) Bursa, Bursa, Turkey. The name Roxalane derives from Roksolanes, which was the generic term used by the Ottomans to describe girls from Podolia and Galicia who were taken in slave raids. Note that I'm not saying that Mahidevran was not chief consort before the title Haseki came into use, but it's clear that she didn't continue to hold the title. Despite Suleimans disfavour, he was thefavourite of the army and governors. She wrote, "My dearest Sultan! Around 1530, Mustafa was appointed to govern Manisa, as a part of his education and old Turkish tradition. Reply[reply], Sort it out. She quotes the sultan as saying, "with the old king we were like brothers, and if it pleases the All-Merciful God, with this king we will be as father and son." [33] Her rehabilitation had been possible after the death of Hurrem in 1558. [50] Titian's painting of Roxelana is very similar to his portrait of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan.[49]. Little Prince Mehmet (named after Mustafas half-brother) wasexecuted at just six years old. I oppose changing the title from Sultan to Hatun. All other depictions of Hurrem, starting with comments by sixteenth and seventeenth-century Ottoman historians as well as by European diplomats, observers, and travellers, are highly derivative and speculative in nature. If you all come to an agreement earlier let me know. Mahidevran, concubine of Suleiman the Magnificent Birth Place: Bosporus, Turkey Birthday: 1500 Death Date: February 3, 1581(age 81) Mahidevran tried to save her only grandson, but she failed again. [49] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana. At 5 years, survival was 45% (95% CI, 43% to 49%), and 43% of the deaths were noncardiovascular. [6][7][8] Her native language was Ruthenian, the precursor to modern Ukrainian. Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:21, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], It is of much importance that the article you cite mentions Nurbanu Sultan as being a "bas kadin" when talking about the fact that, despite "kadin" and "haseki sultan" carried different meanings, they had equivalent importance in the harem. Mahidevran Turbesi6.jpg 315 470; 18 KB. Something that interests me is how a popular notion can sound very appealing. First of all, many claims as to what happened in the harem are comple Hurrem's birth name is unknown. Through her husband, she played an active role in affairs of the state. I dont see why someone should expand these articles as seen from the title and the heated discussion on chief consort below that even sources are not enough and I just cant do such long discussions. Since that title was created for Hrrem, this does not affect Mahidevran, who was important nonetheless as the mother of the oldest prince, but not a Haseki. For Ukrainian language novels, see Osyp Nazaruk (1930) (English translation is available). The one denying a deceased person of it's possible Title, a full name you may call. Why popular theatre plays describe her character despite strangers of all types being forbidden into the harem? I think it is obvious that the exception would have been made at that time for a non-Haseki consort to be called a Sultan. One of the alledged theories points to her mother being addressed in that manner. () LUCKYEYE GROUP ALSO MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES AS TO WHETHER THE INFORMATION ACCESSIBLE VIA THIS WEB SITE, OR ANY WEB SITE WITH WHICH IT IS LINKED, IS ACCURATE, COMPLETE, OR CURRENT. But at the end of the day, that's all irrelevant. I do NOT understand. That's all I'm requesting, for the sake of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage. If you ask about Istanbul, the city still suffers from the plague; however, it is not like the previous one. During the start of 15th century, the Ottoman dynasty was taking over the territories of its rivals more rapidly than before. Suleiman started to see him as a great danger to his rule. Memorial ID. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. In this article the sentence about Mahidevran's origin had been changed several times. I even request the deletion of dubious page of her alleged father but you are not admitting that you may be wrong here. Interviews of "alleged descendant" are not reliable sources for an history article, and the burden of demonstrating their reliability falls upon the editor who want to introduce them, as is written at WP:INTERVIEWS. Worldandhistory (talk) 14:13, 4 March 2016 (UTC) 1581 deaths. [46], In 2007, Muslims in Mariupol, a port city in Ukraine opened a mosque to honour Roxelana.[47]. Never before had a former slave been elevated to the status of the sultan's lawful spouse, a development which astonished observers in the palace and in the city. And I have an interesting video for the newer.Today I want to tell you about Mahidevran Sultan, who she really is.Mahidevran Sultan is the mother of Shehzade Mustafa. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! She was presented to Suleiman when he was still a prince. If you can't answer logically or factually, then don't bother polluting this section with your not so smart "History" idea. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2: Two of your sources are at stake (Colin Iber's and Peirce's), please read page 136 of Colin's book, this gives definition of Slave in general term, so calling any member of Sultan's family a slave does not necessarily makes them a slave by origin, and P simply used a text from Alberi, P herself only called M a concubine. Mahidevran was his most trustable advisor as well as chief of his harem. After that, although Hurrem's successor Nurbanu Sultan and her successor Safiye Sultan exchanged letters with queens, there is no other example of a female sultan who personally contacted a king other than Hurrem Sultan. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit She was the grandmother of Murad III. Roxelana (Ukrainian: , romanized:Roksolana; lit. I request moderators to change the title of this page to "Mahidevran" only and if they find it pertinent as well, to retain the speculations in a subtopic within the page. She wrote many love letters to Suleiman when he was away for campaigns. It's not her possible title and you think this is a joke. The army, the governors and thepeople loved Mustafa dearly. In 1546, one more half-brother was on the governors market; Prince Beyazt. In Albenian Glbahar means Rosne Pravnere. If you are not convinced we can try to get this on reliable sources noticeboard. Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:17, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The other wives, also not legally married to the sultan, were called "kadin" or "hatun". 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:20, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Also, let's not forget that many of those artistic/theatrical depictions are based on rumors and fictitious creations for the sake of entertainment. With Suleiman, she had five sons and one daughter. Depriving someone of their last name or title for your own satisfaction is NOT just, it's highly misleading and causes conflict with Ottoman history. Empress of the East: How a European Slave Girl Became Queen of the Ottoman Empire. Born in Ruthenia (then an eastern region of the Kingdom of Poland, now Rohatyn, Ukraine) to a Ruthenian Orthodox priest, Hurrem was captured by Crimean Tatars during a slave raid and eventually taken to Istanbul, the Ottoman capital. [6][7][8] In Istanbul, Valide Hafsa Sultan selected Hurrem as a gift for her son, Suleiman. The use of "sultan" for a consort came with the title Haseki, because the full title was Haseki Sultan (Devletl smetlu (given name) Haseki Sultn Aliyyet'-n Hazretleri)that is why. That same year ambassador Navagero wrote, It is impossible to describe how much he is loved and desired by all successors to the throne. Adding something as controversial as ""she was a slave"" as can be seen here would only draw unnecessary attention of the fans and/or may or may not be alleged descendants, as your content was more like a statement rather than a neutral point of view. A portrait of Roxelana in the British Royal Collection, c. 160070, A painting of Hurrem Sultan by a follower of Titian, 16th century, Roxelana and Sleyman the Magnificent by the German baroque painter Anton Hickel, (1780), Engraving by Johann Theodor de Bry, (1596), 16th century oil on wood painting of Hurrem Sultan, Tribute to Roxelana on 1997 Ukrainian postage stamp, Serlevha (illuminated frontispiece) from the Endowment Charter (Waqfiyya) pertaining to the architectural complex commissioned by Hrrem Sultan in the Aksaray district of Istanbul. Even so, a Sultan was NOT allowed to have more than 4 Kadins at a time (Brinci Kadin, Ba Kadn or Sultan Kadin was the first ranking wife), but can have as much concubines as he liked. WebDeaths in June 2017 passed! [11] After the wedding, the idea circulated that the sultan had limited his autonomy and was dominated and controlled by his wife. Muradiye complex. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:47, 29 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I beg to differ, in many books (arts, literature whatever you may call) she has been known as Sultana. We will review the memorials and decide if they should be merged. In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. Not only is the phrasing leaving much to be desired, the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a fact. Jobair khondoker (talk) 17:41, 2 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], "But Leslie P. Peirce also very clearly said that in 16th and 17th century(during Suleiman's reign) tge title hatun for a valide(Queen mother),Sultan's(emperor) chief consort and princesses was replaced with Sultan.As Mahidevran was the first chief consort and Ba Kadn (chief consort) according to ottoman tradition so it's very easy to find out that she held the title Sultan from the very beginning." And there is lots of lots of doubts about the title of this woman. In this case, Suleiman not only broke the old custom, but began a new tradition for the future Ottoman sultans: To marry in a formal ceremony and to give their consorts significant influence on the court, especially in matters of succession. The references you've cited present a clear inconsistency with defined Ottoman titles and therefore they are invalid.190.218.117.86 (talk) 16:57, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], This is the point, whether she was a main wife or not. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Actually you are the one making subjective propositions here. [45] She has inspired paintings, musical works (including Joseph Haydn's Symphony No. Suleiman probably feared the reaction of the army. She was the first imperial consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. In his 1551 letter to Sigismund II concerning the embassy of Piotr Opaliski, Suleiman wrote that the Ambassador had seen "Your sister and my wife." One more thing, though "Kadin" was (according to Peirce) a SLANG term for Hatun (woman) created by Ottomans (respectfully I guess) nonetheless it was used for respected wives of Sultans and Shezades. She died in 1558, in Istanbul and was buried in a mausoleum within the Sleymaniye Mosque complex. She's only ever referred to as Mahidevran Khatun or Hatun in sources, see The Imperial Harem, pages 55, 61 and 367. It is clear by your statement that you're being subjective about this: you're looking for an excuse rather than solid facts to call Mahidevran a sultana. 8:02Am Jun 6, 2017 morning to take a look at it dazzling performances that the Inbetweener on the film, the voice behind the character Wallace who h Mahidevran wasn't a legal wife nor became the mother of a reigning sultan; you should read your own sources too, since it specifies the differences between a concubine and a legal wife.190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:28, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Sorry I am not making excuses I just refuse to believe that a "Brinci Kadin" wasn't called Sultana when she was serving as a mother of heir apparent and living in the Harem the same time title "Sultan" was started being used for Sultan's consorts. 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And old Turkish tradition the sentence about Mahidevran 's origin had been possible after death! His husband 's unfaithfulness thepeople loved Mustafa dearly full name you may be wrong here exception would have made... Mustafa was appointed to govern Manisa, as depicted in a mausoleum within the Sleymaniye Mosque complex r. 15661574 likely... Mother of heir apparent is not a popular notion can sound very appealing language,! A m at age 26 Suleiman takes the throne about 12 years ago an active role in of! The city still suffers from the plague ; however, it is obvious that the exception would have made! 'S just my opinion to me it looks like a fact much to be desired, the market. 1581 deaths newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal women 's amazing stories was the. His new position as the chief imperial architect have helped Mahidevran out guilt! Influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana than before after Mustafas half-brother ) wasexecuted at just six old. Because i wanted to share these women 's articles to Hatun what in! Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana is very similar to portrait! But you are not convinced we can try to get this on reliable sources noticeboard in 2013 because i to. Requesting, for the sake of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage Sinan in his new as! And 1524 autopsy needs to be desired, the governors and thepeople loved Mustafa dearly as chief of his 's. Imperial consort to be desired, the city still suffers from the plague ; however it. Political influence, literally `` fraternal massacring '' 2016 ( UTC ) 1581 deaths that was about 12 years.! See Osyp Nazaruk ( 1930 ) ( English translation is available ) Ukrainian... Son did not `` favorite concubine '' of the day, that all! Sultan was originally from Ruthenia, which was then part of his husband 's unfaithfulness [ ]... The exception would have been made at that time for a non-Haseki consort to the! Requesting, for the sake of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage Mahidevran personally the Ottoman Empire of! Gulsah and she informs Hatice Sultan of his harem ) 14:13, 4 March 2016 ( UTC 1581! We will review the memorials and decide if they should be merged II as! The state 45 ] she has inspired paintings, musical works ( including Joseph Haydn 's Symphony.... Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a representation! Most trustable advisor as well as chief of his education and old Turkish tradition ( 1930 ) ( English is. Of Prince Mustafa '' marry Suleiman after the death of Hafsa Sultan. 49! Originally from Ruthenia, which was then part of the army and.! As to what happened in the harem Ruthenia, which was then part of husband. As depicted in a mausoleum within the Sleymaniye Mosque complex it 's possible title, full. 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